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Elim10 Profile
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Re: A world without religion


I love how kids have all the faith in the world.I heard a peacher once say that a kid would believe that an elevator could take them up to heaven.lol.Even a simple child naturally knows that there has got to be something more than what they see.Something happens to that sense of faith for most of us when we become adults.



---
Fairest Lord Jesus, Ruler of all nature, O Thou of God and man the Son, Thee will I cherish, Thee will I honor,Thou my soul's glory, joy, and crown.
3/23/2009, 2:54 pm Link to this post Send PM to Elim10
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: A world without religion


It's not 'something' that happens, it's as a result of understanding more and more about how the world works. It's also the reason why adults don't believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
3/23/2009, 3:03 pm Link to this post Send PM to Morwen Oronor Blog
 
jinzleftbuttcheek Profile
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Re: A world without religion


 emoticon Next thing ya gonna tell me id there is no Easter Bunny!!!! emoticon

insert playful hug for MO. Also your new site looks awesome!!

Last edited by jinzleftbuttcheek, 3/23/2009, 3:18 pm


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Friendship is precious, not only in the shade, but in the sunshine of life. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Stormdog Profile
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Re: A world without religion


quote:

Elim10 wrote:

I love how kids have all the faith in the world.I heard a peacher once say that a kid would believe that an elevator could take them up to heaven.lol.Even a simple child naturally knows that there has got to be something more than what they see.Something happens to that sense of faith for most of us when we become adults.




Indeed, engaging such childish faith is how the religion virus spreads. This makes children highly vulnerable. There's a reason why priests prey upon children. It's for the same reason the church spends much time ensuring a Sunday School type of program is in place, which is the same reason why corporations target the very young. It's called branding, and such forced emotional/spiritual/intellectual loyalty is certainly, to various degrees, a form of child abuse.

What happens with some of us when we grow up is that we become a little more discerning & objective when it comes to the pat answers that were regurgitated for our childhood consumption. In other words, we grow up, both emotionally and intellectually. I dunno about you, but show me a 35 year old man who still believes in Santa and I'll be a little creeped out.


Last edited by Stormdog, 3/23/2009, 6:30 pm


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Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
3/23/2009, 6:27 pm Link to this post Send Email to Stormdog   Send PM to Stormdog
 
Elim10 Profile
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Re: A world without religion


Santa Claus compared to Jesus is the worst parallel I have ever heard of.We all know they're both totally different.No one who is 10 and up believes in Santa Claus, and Santa Claus doesn't effect anybody's lives in anyway.That's why it's so easy for kids to drop the "Santa faith."He is not real, and it doesn't effect their lives at all.The Christian faith has endured persecution for years.Even now Christians are still persecuted in other parts of the world.Why don't people renounce their faith in Christ like they do Santa Claus?Why have so many people dedicated their very lives to Christ?Why have people actually suffered or even died for Christ?I have yet to see anyone in their right mind do those things for Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.Jesus is real, and Santa Claus isn't.

---
Fairest Lord Jesus, Ruler of all nature, O Thou of God and man the Son, Thee will I cherish, Thee will I honor,Thou my soul's glory, joy, and crown.
3/23/2009, 7:16 pm Link to this post Send PM to Elim10
 
Stormdog Profile
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Re: A world without religion


quote:

Elim10 wrote:

Santa Claus compared to Jesus is the worst parallel I have ever heard of.We all know they're both totally different.



I'd agree that they're somewhat different. But Yahweh and Santa? They're not so different.

quote:

No one who is 10 and up believes in Santa Claus, and Santa Claus doesn't effect anybody's lives in anyway.That's why it's so easy for kids to drop the "Santa faith."



It's easier because 1) there's much less invested in the Santa myth, and 2) it is not perpetuated by peers and elders after a certain age.

quote:

He is not real, and it doesn't effect their lives at all.



No,like the borrowed stories we've both been fed from birth about Yahweh, they're not real. However, were I to brainwash you into believing that not measuring up to Santa's standards might result in very bad things to happen to you, I'm guessing that he'd effect your life quite a bit. You'd certainly think about him more than just once a year.

quote:

The Christian faith has endured persecution for years.Even now Christians are still persecuted in other parts of the world.




Yes, many different beliefs have been on the receiving end of persecution, though such religions as Christianity have played both persecutor and persecutee. So what?

quote:

Why don't people renounce their faith in Christ like they do Santa Claus?



It's a myth that is designed to extend beyond adolescence. It's main target is adults. Infecting people when they're infants almost always ensures that this strain will be present at the adult stage. There is no advantage in having adults sincerely believe in Santa. This specific myth is intended to affect children. If adults continued to believe, who the heck is going to play Santa? The spell would be broken.

quote:

Why have so many people dedicated their very lives to Christ?Why have people actually suffered or even died for Christ?



For the exact same reason people pretend to babble in "tongues" or fly airplanes into buildings. They don't know any better. There is no built-in mechanism in the god myths to break the spell at a certain stage.

quote:

I have yet to see anyone in their right mind do those things for Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.Jesus is real, and Santa Claus isn't.



So making a sacrifice is evidence that the receiver of said sacrifice is real? Is this a statement you're willing to stand behind?

The legend of Santa Claus is likely based upon a real historical person. I'd suggest that the same may be said about the Jesus we've read about in the bible. However, there are common claims about both, just as there are extraordinary claims about both.

That an older man once made toys for children, leaving them to be found by good kids on a given morning is not an extraordinary claim. That the same man has a species of dwarf humanoids assisting him, then utilizing the powers of flying hoofed mammals to deliver the goods is.

That a seer/visionary/prophet roamed about the Middle East 2000 years ago with a small following of worshipers who spoke to the needs of repressed people living in very tumulus times is not extraordinary. In fact, it was quite ordinary. That a lone prophet did actually have a virgin mother and a godly father, could actually walk on water, and finally, for a grand finale, raise from the dead, is an extraordinary claim. And just like the equally extraordinary claims regarding Santa, I'll reserve the right to withhold my belief, pending additional evidence. Pardon my continuity.

---
There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
3/23/2009, 10:36 pm Link to this post Send Email to Stormdog   Send PM to Stormdog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: A world without religion


quote:

jinzleftbuttcheek wrote:

 emoticon Next thing ya gonna tell me id there is no Easter Bunny!!!! emoticon

insert playful hug for MO. Also your new site looks awesome!!



Thanks for the compliment Jinzi, you are welcome to join.
And sorry there is no Easter Bunny, it's your parents!

LOL

The comparison between Santa and Jesus, Elim, may be a bit blasphemous if you actually believe in blasphemy. To compare Santa (who is based on a real figure) to a Jesus who possibly also is based on several real figures is not.
What Stormdog is saying about all the brainwashing of children and the extremes people are prepared to go to in order to validate the belief the have in the everlasting life of a composite of people who may or may not have really existed, is a cop out because it is a way to give up responsibility for their actions.
I could do the same thing about my ancestors. I could claim that I'm living my life according to the traditions of my ancestors and that in me they continue existing, this is a very valid answer because we are the product of the lives of our ancestors. This can't be true of the mythical Jesus because he didn't have any descendants.
So the excuse of actions because of my traditions and excused by those traditions is a very valid one.
The excuse that people do what they do because Jesus said so is not valid because he died - even claiming he rose from the dead isn't valid, because he didn't have any children.
3/24/2009, 3:25 am Link to this post Send PM to Morwen Oronor Blog
 
Stormdog Profile
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interestingly...


there was likely a point in your life, in all our lives, when we believed in both Santa and God equally.

I was actually comparing Santa to Yahweh (I've seen more evidence for Santa), but Santa and Jesus works too.

---
There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
3/24/2009, 10:08 pm Link to this post Send Email to Stormdog   Send PM to Stormdog
 


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