Tim Callahan
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Rick: How important is prophecy?
Pastor Rick:
My initiative on the prophecies against Egypt, the thread we transfered from general Christianity to here, followed by my initiatives on the prophecies of the fall of Tyre and the fall of Nineveh - including the identity of Sardanapalus, all grew out of a question I put to Elim 10 about whether or not he thought belief or unbelief in Jesus as God and savior was the only factor in salvation. I posed for him the fates of two men. One is a good man who dies an atheist. The other is a serial child rapist and murderer who turns to Jesus at the point of death. I asked him who went to heaven and who went to hell.
Elim's response was that the good atheist would go to hell and the murdering pervert would go to heaven. In other words, all that mattered was swearing the right loyaltiy oath.
I questioned his belief in the Bible as the word of God based on what I see as a lot of failed prophecy. That eventually led us to move the thread to the prophecy section.
I now have two questions to put to you:
(1) How important is it to you that these prophecies I've talked about be fulfilled?
(2) Do you agree with Elim 10's judgment regarding who is saved and who goes to hell? (Please answer this one on the section designated "Christianity.")
Tim
Last edited by Tim Callahan, 2/6/2009, 3:38 pm
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2/5/2009, 8:29 pm
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Stormdog
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a question I had in mind.
I was going to ask a question along similar lines: are there many "prophecies" any Christians here have seen that they thought was bogus? I'm wondering if anyone here feels obliged to accept them, simply in order to avoid disagreeing with other believers.
I took a peek at some other Religious discussion boards at the Run Board directory. Algee started a new one, and in the "debate" section he opened with Pascal's Wager. Now, I personally know several Christians who would smack him upside the head for doing such a thing, but I do wonder how many out there feel obliged to allow such poorly constructed arguments to be put forth in favor of showing their general solidarity with such believers who are obviously very new to philosophy, logic, and debate. Or would you feel obliged to quietly correct them? This is an issue that probably represents the largest problem within Islam. There's obviously been disagreement among Christians, hence the many denominations. I'm speaking in general terms here. Do you remain quiet when you come across a very poorly constructed argument or flat-out misinformation?
One of the perks I feel I have with my atheism is that I feel quite free to disagree with other atheists with regards to pretty much anything.
However, some of my most heated debates have been with Agnostics.
--- There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
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2/6/2009, 2:06 am
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Stormdog
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here's the site I mentioned.
If you go to this site you'll find what must be some of the most poorly constructed arguments I've ever read. Now, the site is pretty new, but I'm wondering if any charitable Christians will eventually PM the poor guy and explain to him why he's better off posting blank pages.
Last edited by Stormdog, 2/8/2009, 3:15 am
--- There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
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2/8/2009, 3:12 am
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Tim Callahan
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Re: Rick: How important is prophecy?
You're right about that site, Stormdog. "Algee" just told me - when I suggested he study evolution before trashing it, so at least he'd know what he was talking about - that since he knew it was false, he didn't have to waste his time studiying it! And this guy has the gall to call his website "Concience with Knowledge"!
Be that as it may, I wish we could get an answer from Pastor Rick. Oh, Pastor Rick! Oh, Pastor Rick! Where art thou?
Tim
Last edited by Tim Callahan, 2/11/2009, 10:01 pm
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2/11/2009, 9:59 pm
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Stormdog
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Re: Rick: How important is prophecy?
quote: Tim Callahan wrote:
You're right about that site, Stormdog. "Algee" just told me - when I suggested he study evolution before trashing it, so at least he'd know what he was talking about - that since he knew it was false, he didn't have to waste his time studiying it! And this guy has the gall to call his website "Concience with Knowledge"!
Be that as it may, I wish we could get an answer from Pastor Rick. Oh, Pastor Rick! Oh, Pastor Rick! Where art thou?
Tim
I dunno... maybe this is Rick's way of saying "it's pretty important".
I'm sure he'll drop by eventually. As far as I can tell, he's pretty active within the Runboard community, so he's probably around, just busy.
--- There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
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2/11/2009, 10:44 pm
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Elim10
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Re: Rick: How important is prophecy?
quote: Tim Callahan wrote:
Pastor Rick:
My initiative on the prophecies against Egypt, the thread we transfered from general Christianity to here, followed by my initiatives on the prophecies of the fall of Tyre and the fall of Nineveh - including the identity of Sardanapalus, all grew out of a question I put to Elim 10 about whether or not he thought belief or unbelief in Jesus as God and savior was the only factor in salvation. I posed for him the fates of two men. One is a good man who dies an atheist. The other is a serial child rapist and murderer who turns to Jesus at the point of death. I asked him who went to heaven and who went to hell.
Elim's response was that the good atheist would go to hell and the murdering pervert would go to heaven. In other words, all that mattered was swearing the right loyaltiy oath.
I questioned his belief in the Bible as the word of God based on what I see as a lot of failed prophecy. That eventually led us to move the thread to the prophecy section.
I now have two questions to put to you:
(1) How important is it to you that these prophecies I've talked about be fulfilled?
(2) Do you agree with Elim 10's judgment regarding who is saved and who goes to hell? (Please answer this one on the section designated "Christianity.")
Tim
What was up with the pronouns? I'm not a guy,I'm a girl.
quote:
In other words, all that mattered was swearing the right loyalty oath.
That's not what I said.
The "good" atheist could have "sworn the right loyalty oath", and he still would have gone to hell if he never sincerely confessed.
By the way,what does the "right loyalty oath" mean to you?
--- We pass out paper facts all week but they won't come around
Apologetic reasoning,but they won't come around,come around
There's only one way they'll come around and it's love ~ Jimmy Needham
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2/12/2009, 5:33 pm
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Tim Callahan
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Re: Rick: How important is prophecy?
You have my apology for screwing up the pronoun. It ws an honest slip.
As to the "loyalty oath" what I mean is this. the actions o a person apparently don't count with you as long as they say, "I believe in Jesus." That I consider nothing more than a loyalty oath. According to what you said, the goodness of the atheist counts less than a sex murderer who preys on little girls saying, "I believe in Jesus." Tha's what I call a loyalty oath.
Tim
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2/12/2009, 8:35 pm
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Elim10
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Re: Rick: How important is prophecy?
It's not so much what you say as what your heart is.
The atheist and murderer would both be sinners.The atheist has probably never raped or killed anyone,but has sinned in other ways.
Jesus said that if anyone hates someone in his heart,that person is guilty of murder.
He also said that if anyone looks at a man's wife or a women's husband with lust,that person has commited adultery in the heart.
No one is perfect.Everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.Mankind has been stained with sin.God cannot dwell with sin.Sin is an abomination to Him.Therefore, no one can get to heaven without having Jesus as their atonement and reconciliation to God.
--- We pass out paper facts all week but they won't come around
Apologetic reasoning,but they won't come around,come around
There's only one way they'll come around and it's love ~ Jimmy Needham
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2/13/2009, 5:35 pm
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Tim Callahan
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Re: Rick: How important is prophecy?
Elim-10:
Since we are now off the subject of prophecy, I'm going to transfer my dialogue with you regarding sin back to the Christianity section. This threatd is still open so that Pastor Rick can aswer my question when he comes back.
My answer to you regarding sin and salvation will begin a new thread titled "Dialogue with Elim 10 on sin" in the Christianity section.
Tim
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2/13/2009, 6:50 pm
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